OP 30 June, 2024 - 07:00 PM
(This post was last modified: 30 June, 2024 - 07:09 PM by poopyfartman.)
PSA: COPS CAN LIE TO YOU
(Most of this pertains to the US, possibly other places)
Remember, almost nothing you say can help you. Do not talk. If you're already under arrest, remain silent. You can fight your case in court. The police cannot and will not help you. They will lie and try to pretend like they care and/or will let you get off with lesser charges. Ignore them.
1) If you don't fess up, we're going to charge your family / friend. We're going to take your house and evict everyone.
They try all sorts of scare tactics. Never under any circumstances, make any decisions WITHOUT a lawyer. They will try to pretend like it's your only chance to "come clean" or else they're going to walk out and the chance goes away. This is 99% bullshit. The prosecutor has discretion of what to do. Furthermore, unless you're trapping out of your house, no jury is going to want to make your family homeless. Remember, if the cops do a bunch of evil shit, it's much easier for the jury to take your side. They bluff. A LOT.
2) Your friend is already talking. How else would we know ______? If you don't start talking soon, he's going to be the one with the deal. They already snitched on you, do yourself a favor and help yourself out too.
Another common lie. They will try to pit you against each other. Silence is important in all cases. Even if it's a traffic stop where they split you up and ask you both the same questions to see if your stories match. You do not have to talk to them. They're looking for reasonable suspicion / probable cause. Simply state "I'm not answering any questions that aren't related to the current situation." In some cases it's best to cooperate fully if you know they won't catch you in a lie. YMMV. Anything you say can be used against you. With one piece of information they get from you or your friend, they can turn around and use it to get even more with the other person. Keep your mouth shut.
3) Asking a passenger for ID
Not all states are stop and ID states. Plenty of them are not. I've seen countless videos where cops demand ID from everyone in the car and then someone ends up having a warrant or things escalate. If you're not driving, you (possibly) do not have to ID. You can refuse. Some cops are unaware of this so there may be arguing, or they may lie and say you have to. If you get charged for not providing ID and you're technically in the right, then I'm assuming what follows would fall under "fruits of the poisonous tree", and not be eligible to be used against you (i.e. charges dropped) but someone with more legal knowledge can correct me.
4) If you talk, it will make it easier in the long run. If you fess up, we will go lenient on you
Majority of the time, you're digging your own grave if you talk. I'll link some interrogation videos below, but there are SO many instances where people fall into the trap of thinking the cop is their friend. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS. They will try to build rapport in various ways. They will pay attention to your every gesture and move. They will nail you to the fucking wall as soon as they can. They want a confession, clues, anything to build a case against you. I've seen so any cases where people could've walked away and likely gotten away with literal murder, but instead told on themselves. Invoke your right to remain silent, and ask for a lawyer. That's all you should say, ESPECIALLY if you're not yet under arrest.
I DON'T CARE IF YOU THINK IT MAKES YOU LOOK GUILTY. I WOULD RATHER LOOK GUILTY AND BE FREE THAN LOOK INNOCENT AND BE IN PRISON. They cannot use your right to counsel against you. Nothing is wrong with wanting a legal professional on your side when answering any questions. If they bring you in for questioning, insist on having a lawyer with you.
For youtube channels that show interrogations and point out techniques, see "JCS - Criminal Psychology" (aka JimCantSwim) and Red Tree
Stories. For a channel with a lawyer who speaks wisdom and even covers some JCS videos, look up CLR Bruce Rivers.
Please add any relevant police lies / tactics. Thanks.
(Bonus from personal knowledge)
5) We already know everything. Jimmy is already telling us everything we need to know. Either you can fill in a few blanks and tell your side and not be charged, or we can charge you. We really don't want to charge you, so if you can just help us out a bit, it will go nicely for you.
Again, police love to lie. They will instill a sense of urgency, they will play it down like you're doing the right thing by talking to the police, they will pit you against others, they will straight up LIE about things, they will make it sound like they are judge, jury, and executioner. They are not.
For some further reading, check out https:// casetext .c0m /case/united-states-v-ramos-270
The following guy sounds fucked right?
(From a news site:)
Well, he ended up pursuing a motion to suppress based on various things. It was granted.
Things are not always black and white.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Addendum, added due to questions:
They require reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed to pull you over / detain you. This can include the officer witnessing a traffic violation among other things listed below.
What is reasonable suspicion?
It refers to the belief, based on specific facts and circumstances, that a person may be involved in illegal activities or poses a threat to public safety.
Unlike probable cause, which requires a higher level of hard evidence, reasonable suspicion is a lower standard that allows law enforcement officers to briefly detain an individual or conduct a limited search for the purpose of further investigating potential illegal activity.
Articulable Facts
Reasonable suspicion means that law enforcement officers must be able to articulate the reasons for their suspicion and provide factual information supporting their belief. If you watch any police auditors, or people wrongfully stopped, they may ask "What is your reasonable, articulable suspicions for detaining me?" see: https://www youtube com/watch?v=954d1UzdVcY (CLEARNET), or search "P.I. and Ex-Cop OWNS Clueless Cops On DashCam
Observations and Behavior
"Officers may consider the behavior, actions, and appearance of an individual when assessing reasonable suspicion. Suspicious behavior, unusual movements, furtive gestures, or attempts to evade law enforcement can contribute to reasonable suspicion."
Information and Tips
"Information received from reliable sources, informants, or anonymous tips can be taken into account. However, the credibility and veracity of the source may influence the weight given to the information in establishing reasonable suspicion."
Geographic Factors
"The location and context of the encounter can be relevant in determining reasonable suspicion. High-crime areas or places known for illegal activities may heighten an officer’s suspicions, but mere presence in such an area is not enough to establish reasonable suspicion on its own."
Time and Circumstances
"The time of day or night, along with the circumstances surrounding the encounter, can contribute to the reasonable suspicion analysis. For example, suspicious behavior that occurs during late-night hours in an area known for drug trafficking may raise the level of suspicion."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Requirement of Probable Cause
"To obtain a search warrant, law enforcement officers must demonstrate to a judge or magistrate that there is probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed and that evidence or contraband related to the crime can be found in the specified location. Probable cause requires a reasonable belief, supported by sufficient facts and circumstances, that a search will lead to the discovery of evidence of a crime." Exceptions include if you consent to a search, if suspect is at risk of imminent harm, if they search you after already being arrested, and searches of items in plain view. If you are arrest they can tow your vehicle and take an inventory of it.
This is a bump
(Most of this pertains to the US, possibly other places)
Remember, almost nothing you say can help you. Do not talk. If you're already under arrest, remain silent. You can fight your case in court. The police cannot and will not help you. They will lie and try to pretend like they care and/or will let you get off with lesser charges. Ignore them.
1) If you don't fess up, we're going to charge your family / friend. We're going to take your house and evict everyone.
They try all sorts of scare tactics. Never under any circumstances, make any decisions WITHOUT a lawyer. They will try to pretend like it's your only chance to "come clean" or else they're going to walk out and the chance goes away. This is 99% bullshit. The prosecutor has discretion of what to do. Furthermore, unless you're trapping out of your house, no jury is going to want to make your family homeless. Remember, if the cops do a bunch of evil shit, it's much easier for the jury to take your side. They bluff. A LOT.
2) Your friend is already talking. How else would we know ______? If you don't start talking soon, he's going to be the one with the deal. They already snitched on you, do yourself a favor and help yourself out too.
Another common lie. They will try to pit you against each other. Silence is important in all cases. Even if it's a traffic stop where they split you up and ask you both the same questions to see if your stories match. You do not have to talk to them. They're looking for reasonable suspicion / probable cause. Simply state "I'm not answering any questions that aren't related to the current situation." In some cases it's best to cooperate fully if you know they won't catch you in a lie. YMMV. Anything you say can be used against you. With one piece of information they get from you or your friend, they can turn around and use it to get even more with the other person. Keep your mouth shut.
3) Asking a passenger for ID
Not all states are stop and ID states. Plenty of them are not. I've seen countless videos where cops demand ID from everyone in the car and then someone ends up having a warrant or things escalate. If you're not driving, you (possibly) do not have to ID. You can refuse. Some cops are unaware of this so there may be arguing, or they may lie and say you have to. If you get charged for not providing ID and you're technically in the right, then I'm assuming what follows would fall under "fruits of the poisonous tree", and not be eligible to be used against you (i.e. charges dropped) but someone with more legal knowledge can correct me.
4) If you talk, it will make it easier in the long run. If you fess up, we will go lenient on you
Majority of the time, you're digging your own grave if you talk. I'll link some interrogation videos below, but there are SO many instances where people fall into the trap of thinking the cop is their friend. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS. They will try to build rapport in various ways. They will pay attention to your every gesture and move. They will nail you to the fucking wall as soon as they can. They want a confession, clues, anything to build a case against you. I've seen so any cases where people could've walked away and likely gotten away with literal murder, but instead told on themselves. Invoke your right to remain silent, and ask for a lawyer. That's all you should say, ESPECIALLY if you're not yet under arrest.
I DON'T CARE IF YOU THINK IT MAKES YOU LOOK GUILTY. I WOULD RATHER LOOK GUILTY AND BE FREE THAN LOOK INNOCENT AND BE IN PRISON. They cannot use your right to counsel against you. Nothing is wrong with wanting a legal professional on your side when answering any questions. If they bring you in for questioning, insist on having a lawyer with you.
For youtube channels that show interrogations and point out techniques, see "JCS - Criminal Psychology" (aka JimCantSwim) and Red Tree
Stories. For a channel with a lawyer who speaks wisdom and even covers some JCS videos, look up CLR Bruce Rivers.
Please add any relevant police lies / tactics. Thanks.
(Bonus from personal knowledge)
5) We already know everything. Jimmy is already telling us everything we need to know. Either you can fill in a few blanks and tell your side and not be charged, or we can charge you. We really don't want to charge you, so if you can just help us out a bit, it will go nicely for you.
Again, police love to lie. They will instill a sense of urgency, they will play it down like you're doing the right thing by talking to the police, they will pit you against others, they will straight up LIE about things, they will make it sound like they are judge, jury, and executioner. They are not.
For some further reading, check out https:// casetext .c0m /case/united-states-v-ramos-270
The following guy sounds fucked right?
(From a news site:)
Quote:PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) — Rhode Island State Police say they have arrested a fugitive from Massachusetts in a Providence apartment where they also found nearly two pounds of pure fentanyl with a street value of more than $30,000.
Police say 52-year-old Jesus Ramos was arrested Wednesday on drug trafficking and fugitive charges after authorities learned he was staying at the apartment.
Rhode Island authorities say Ramos is wanted in Massachusetts for allegedly skipping bail while awaiting trial on drug and gun charges. He is due in court in Providence on Thursday.
In addition to the powerful opioid fentanyl, investigators say they found 10 grams of heroin, two presses used for packing fentanyl, heroin and other narcotics, and drug packaging materials in the Providence apartment.
Well, he ended up pursuing a motion to suppress based on various things. It was granted.
Quote:"...It seems possible, though not inevitable, that the police could have provided enough information in the affidavit to establish probable cause for either the cell-record warrant or the physical-search warrant without the taint of illegality. But, as the Court has found, they did not. However, even if the discovery of evidence was inevitable, to apply the inevitable-discovery rule here is not appropriate. It could encourage law enforcement official to seek warrants without supplying the reviewing judicial officer with the facts necessary to ensure probable cause exists. The cell-record warrant the police received was vastly broad, and premised only on the assertion that a credible source had linked the number to the defendant. The weighty privacy considerations that attend such a search demand that the inevitable-discovery exception not apply."
Things are not always black and white.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Addendum, added due to questions:
They require reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed to pull you over / detain you. This can include the officer witnessing a traffic violation among other things listed below.
What is reasonable suspicion?
It refers to the belief, based on specific facts and circumstances, that a person may be involved in illegal activities or poses a threat to public safety.
Unlike probable cause, which requires a higher level of hard evidence, reasonable suspicion is a lower standard that allows law enforcement officers to briefly detain an individual or conduct a limited search for the purpose of further investigating potential illegal activity.
Articulable Facts
Reasonable suspicion means that law enforcement officers must be able to articulate the reasons for their suspicion and provide factual information supporting their belief. If you watch any police auditors, or people wrongfully stopped, they may ask "What is your reasonable, articulable suspicions for detaining me?" see: https://www youtube com/watch?v=954d1UzdVcY (CLEARNET), or search "P.I. and Ex-Cop OWNS Clueless Cops On DashCam
Observations and Behavior
"Officers may consider the behavior, actions, and appearance of an individual when assessing reasonable suspicion. Suspicious behavior, unusual movements, furtive gestures, or attempts to evade law enforcement can contribute to reasonable suspicion."
Information and Tips
"Information received from reliable sources, informants, or anonymous tips can be taken into account. However, the credibility and veracity of the source may influence the weight given to the information in establishing reasonable suspicion."
Geographic Factors
"The location and context of the encounter can be relevant in determining reasonable suspicion. High-crime areas or places known for illegal activities may heighten an officer’s suspicions, but mere presence in such an area is not enough to establish reasonable suspicion on its own."
Time and Circumstances
"The time of day or night, along with the circumstances surrounding the encounter, can contribute to the reasonable suspicion analysis. For example, suspicious behavior that occurs during late-night hours in an area known for drug trafficking may raise the level of suspicion."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Requirement of Probable Cause
"To obtain a search warrant, law enforcement officers must demonstrate to a judge or magistrate that there is probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed and that evidence or contraband related to the crime can be found in the specified location. Probable cause requires a reasonable belief, supported by sufficient facts and circumstances, that a search will lead to the discovery of evidence of a crime." Exceptions include if you consent to a search, if suspect is at risk of imminent harm, if they search you after already being arrested, and searches of items in plain view. If you are arrest they can tow your vehicle and take an inventory of it.
This is a bump
![[Image: 0z10Lr9.png]](https://i.imgur.com/0z10Lr9.png)
![[Image: 4lthqn7.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4lthqn7.png)